Curse

Bobby2 · Sep 03, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Hehe if you Wars MUST have stance removal...

...go W/P for [wild throw]

No damage but at least it doesn't shut you down lmao

Rhamia Darigaz · Sep 03, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

There's a reason that Final Thrust rarely sees play and Decapitate never sees play. "Lose all adrenaline" is bad.

[hammer bash] disagrees with your stereotype.

Bowstring Badass · Sep 03, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

[hammer bash] disagrees with your stereotype.

And that is usually run at the end of the chain. Final Thrust is bad because sun and moon does about the same damage and gives adren to other skills. Decapitate isn't run because axe wars can use eviscerate at the start of the spike and actually get dw at the start of a spike not the end.

Bobby2 · Sep 03, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Final Thrust is bad because sun and moon does about the same damage and gives adren to other skills.

I dislike Final Thrust as well, but this isn't true unless you're Conjure'd up or something

Tyla · Sep 04, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Final Thrust is bad because sun and moon does about the same damage and gives adren to other skills.

You're saying Final Thrust is bad because SnM is better? What? Not to mention it is also used at the end of a chain the majority of the time the same way Hammer Bash is used.

Final Thrust is a more spikey skill than SnM. At a max damage crit, you'll deal about 140 damage providing your target is already below 50% health. SnM will deal roughly 92. Although SnM is highly more versatile than Final Thrust, Final Thrust allows swords to spike even better.

Quote:

Decapitate isn't run because axe wars can use eviscerate at the start of the spike and actually get dw at the start of a spike not the end.

And that's because Decapitate has that huge negative clause. Eviscerate is a great skill because it deals a decent amount of damage while providing deep wound with no downfall except for the adrenaline charge as an added reason to why it's powerful.

moko · Sep 04, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

you can indeed compare Hammer Bash and Final Thrust (which are both good skills) as they are being used at the end of your attack "chain".

Final Thrust isn't really bad, it's good for spiking, it just requires Sprint, so it doesn't fit into every build.

however, using Wild Blow at the end of a chain is .. pointless. removing stance removal in the end won't help a lot, sure you won't lose any adrenaline that way as you already burned it out, but yeah ..

Decapitate is bad that you can't really use it as a starter for your chain, plus losing energy is pretty dumb. even if you fire away with Decapitate at the end of the chain .. you STILL need one last hit to trigger the deepwound. pretty dumb.

Wild Blow is excellent for Dervishes -- i don't see why it should need changing. if it was buffed for Warriors, that might cause imbalance and make Warriors too strong. srsly, imagine the basic shock war chain with stance removal..

/ monk nightmare much ?! :P

Winterclaw · Sep 04, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You're saying Final Thrust is bad because SnM is better? What? Not to mention it is also used at the end of a chain the majority of the time the same way Hammer Bash is used.

Final Thrust is a more spikey skill than SnM. At a max damage crit, you'll deal about 140 damage providing your target is already below 50% health. SnM will deal roughly 92. Although SnM is highly more versatile than Final Thrust, Final Thrust allows swords to spike even better.

Too bad monk mobs don't carry SoA or PS more... I don't like final thrust because in PvE, waiting to build it up takes forever and you might get to use it twice. DS takes just as long to build up, but once you get it there, you can use FGJ and spam it for a lot more damage.

So Final thrust is useless in pve where maintainable DPS is a little better than spike damage, and in pvp you have to hope either the other team doesn't have a monk or the monk doesn't know how or when to use PS or SoA.

Bobby2 · Sep 04, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

if it was buffed for Warriors, that might cause imbalance and make Warriors too strong. srsly, imagine the basic shock war chain with stance removal..

/ monk nightmare much ?! :P

Good point.

Makes sense too. Stances are meant just for that purpose - protection from physicals - and easily accessable Stance removal would kind of undermine the concept. Dervs have to give up their Conjure for it, too, sacrifices have to be made

Would be nice to have a (pricey, but usable) adrenal Stance ender in the Swordsmanship line from a fluff point of view.

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You're saying Final Thrust is bad because SnM is better? What? Not to mention it is also used at the end of a chain the majority of the time the same way Hammer Bash is used.

Final Thrust is a more spikey skill than SnM. At a max damage crit, you'll deal about 140 damage providing your target is already below 50% health. SnM will deal roughly 92. Although SnM is highly more versatile than Final Thrust, Final Thrust allows swords to spike even better.

And that's because Decapitate has that huge negative clause. Eviscerate is a great skill because it deals a decent amount of damage while providing deep wound with no downfall except for the adrenaline charge as an added reason to why it's powerful.

have fun taking sprint, bulls, and frenzy all on the same bar then. S&M is a much better pick. It deals near equal damage, can technically critical twice, triggers zeal and vamp twice (or a conjure), and gives back some adren. not to mention its unblockable mechanic, and the fact that it cost less.. im not seeing how FT is even comparable anymore, especially seeing as S&M slips under SB and PS, and deals its max damage no matter what unlike FT >50%.

if you want spiky, take a 13/14 split and take body blow

Tyla · Sep 04, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

have fun taking sprint, bulls, and frenzy all on the same bar then. S&M is a much better pick. It deals near equal damage, can technically critical twice, triggers zeal and vamp twice (or a conjure), and gives back some adren. not to mention its unblockable mechanic, and the fact that it cost less.. im not seeing how FT is even comparable anymore, especially seeing as S&M slips under SB and PS, and deals its max damage no matter what unlike FT >50%.

Who said I was comparing the two skills?

I even said in my post that SnM is alot more versatile.

Final Thrust for spiking, SnM for versatility.

Quote:

if you want spiky, take a 13/14 split and take body blow

Final Thrust is far, far more stronger than Body Blow.

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Final Thrust is far, far more stronger than Body Blow.

FT 35 damage, 70 conditional 10 adren, clears you of adren

BB 36 unconditional 7 adren

you can pass BB off more, more consistently, and in a team scenario, BB swings DW with it. I'd still take BB.

moko · Sep 04, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Taking Body Blow to spike instead of Final Thrust is pointless.

for pressure reasons (such as, PvE) I'd take Body Blow / Sun and Moon as mentioned.

Quote:

BB swings DW with it. I'd still take BB.

not that often. :P

Tyla · Sep 04, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Agreed, Moko. Especially because in PvE you aren't exactly coordinating spikes except for maybe slapping that Mesmer hex on someone and making the team press T and 2 and watching them blow up in Cry of Pain. Even then it doesn't need to be coordinated much.

I'll say it again: Final Thrust for spikes, SnM for more versatility. SnM is more useful in far more situations, but Final makes swords deal quite a big spike.

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

i was talking about BB in place of FT in pvp, not pve. in pve, if you're using FT in the first place, somethings wrong... either way, i still pick S&M over both.

-Pluto- · Sep 09, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

How to run wild blow on an otherwise ordinary warrior!

[magehunter's smash][flail][crushing blow][wild blow][optional][enraging charge][bull's strike][resurrection signet]

optional would either be rush or bash. Dstrike is probably a bit too much on the energy. Build isn't perfect, since you can't kd a stanced target with no enchants. But if you do kd a stanced target, you can wild blow the stance off and still get crushing blow in.

With bash on the bar, you'd not be able to use it after wild blow. However, vs non stance targets you can use it as a follow up to bash, since you just drained all your adren anyway. Guaranteed 84 damage vs 60 AL targets at 13 str (and 85 if you're brave and run 14 str for the extra adren off enraging), which is at least somewhat comparable to a power attack/mighty blow, though you'll miss the triple digit numbers those are capable of on their critical hits (or not, since mighty blow/power attack sort of fell out of style, and you don't run those anyway).

Tyla · Sep 09, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

^

If a hammer bar only has 2 KD's as opposed to 3 KD's, I'd just play a Shock Axe to be honest.

@Magikarp: The first part of my post had nothing to do with PvP at all.

Age · Sep 09, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

[skill]steady stance[/skill] [skill]desperation blow[/skill] [skill]drunken blow[/skill] [skill]hammer bash[/skill] [skill]wild blow[/skill] [skill]sprint[/skill] [skill]mending touch[/skill] [skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

12/13 tactics
14/15 hammer
about 10 in strength

wild blow works well in that build, but i dont see a use for it most of the time.

Looks fine to be an AB build for going after Sins.No Wild blow really isn't needed on Warriors as they aren't going after each other unless it is in RA but it is wasted skill slot.

Greedy Gus · Sep 09, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

^

If a hammer bar only has 2 KD's as opposed to 3 KD's, I'd just play a Shock Axe to be honest.

It's essentially replacing the d-strike/rush utility slot with wild blow, which can be a pretty good idea depending on the meta. You'd still want to run bash like normal.

qvtkc · Sep 10, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

[skill]steady stance[/skill] [skill]desperation blow[/skill] [skill]drunken blow[/skill] [skill]hammer bash[/skill] [skill]wild blow[/skill] [skill]sprint[/skill] [skill]mending touch[/skill] [skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

12/13 tactics
14/15 hammer
about 10 in strength

wild blow works well in that build, but i dont see a use for it most of the time.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10099769
Hang on I'll try to find the threads where I created shock axe and 55 monk too

jkjk

-Pluto- · Sep 11, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

^

If a hammer bar only has 2 KD's as opposed to 3 KD's, I'd just play a Shock Axe to be honest.

I agree, which is why I'd run bash in the optional slot.

We actually used this bar in an old guild of mine with rush. Back then, we used Earth shaker, since magehunter effectively didn't exist (it actually did what the outdated tool-tip says it does!). 2-kd hammers were a pretty common occurrence for some reason, so it wasn't really giving up much. People just liked them for spikes I guess. We had our hammer war drop his mighty blow for wild blow to combat all the soldier's defense monks at the time, figuring he could at least break the stance off a monk so the axe warrior could spike him, if he wasn't lucky enough to be able to kd a stance monk with the aoe.

Even with bash, the concept behind wild blow on a hammer (as opposed to an axe) is still the same. It's not a dead skill vs non-stances because you can still use it as a lame power attack, and flail + enraging charge kind of allows you to be okay with adren loss right at the end of your chain.